I try to start at least two pups every year. He is still the best looking beagle I have ever laid eyes on. They were originally used at our hunting club, but we moved them here to provide another feeding station to rabbits and deer. If You Like A Faster Male You Will Like Hin. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Beagles are excellent hunting companions because of their great sense of smell. Allow the dog to catch the rabbit if it can, but don't allow it to How early should I start my beagle pups? Runnning dogs come easy but good jump dogs are hard to get. rabbit run. I opted for what I have, at least I can hunt them day and night. A good Beagle has the capability of hunting rabbit alone, making for an enjoyable time spending one on one time with your dog in the woods. Once your Beagle is able to track the smell, you can let him loose and chase the animal. Thank you. Then, let your pooch smell the prey and have a good sniff. These dogs have plenty of hunt, are handling as good as you'll find in a young dog, run an upper medium speed, & are gonna be torn up when they come in after the hunt. Price is $800, This beautiful dog was born on 6/8/21. His hunt is getting better with each time out. Never forget it.fellow said they down at the house go get them..we got there and they was running loose in the yard..so we loaded them up. Boy was I wrong! Any advice would be great. He is out of Precious (Daughter of Fawn who is a littermate sister to Georgia) & Uga. Last time I was at a field trial, we ran wild cottontails, so I say that would be the best opinion. You just have to put them in places and situations where the bred in instincts can come out. Watching them do what theyre bred to do, listening to the dogs, and working with the dogs is what its all about.. times you are out. Having hunting dogs is a commitment. Finding you by your voice is another skill that he will need. They were born on 3/17/21. Starting pens are surrounded by rabbit proof fencing (or chicken wire), and can range in size from 60 x 60 ft. to five acres large. A successful hunting partnership depends on both the hunter reading the dogs cues and vice versa. Sparky lacked perfection in one aspecthe would burn a deers hind quarters off in a heartbeat. Price is $800, Sold to Kevin Greenawalt from VA on 11/1/22, This beautiful female was born on 10/27/21. He was born on 5/29/21 & is out of Trouble & Awesome. If you like dogs that don't mind getting their ears torn up these are your style dogs right here. step out of the pups vision and wait. With the small game season coming to a close Feb. 27, he was willing to work with me on a . This When the dog can cold trail the rabbit and then jump Sparky was a saddleback beagle we got when I was young for $50 as a pet. I say this because it reflects how a good older dog can bring out the best in dogs that have potential that would otherwise not exist. I exposed them to a tame rabbit and train them smelling things out around the yard. These dogs are good ones for those of you who like smaller dogs. Alternatively, you can buy a tame rabbit and build a pen in your yard. Just dont shoot the rabbits on the jump when you go..its always important to let the dogs run the rabbits..at least the first one. He is getting better with each trip out & is in the races that are hot. He has plenty of hunt, upper medium speed, handles good, & is doing great. But if we habe issues jumping rabbits then the dogs will want to start running something. spark their interest and introduce them to their future prey. This red female should stay under 13" when grown. Price is $1,000, These were born on 8/16/21. This is to be taught when your dog is already a master at tracking a rabbits smell. I will keep something out of the next litter. These dogs are gonna be around 14" except for Female #1. Teach him to follow the smell of a specific object and give the command find it. All they need is tracks. Call out 'come back' and show your beagle a treat. the purpose of this article, a started dog is one that will chase rabbits on its Tracker is a grandson to Reggie & Bella is out of Poncho & Brownie which were some older dogs from the past. This can be done by holding the rabbit by the scruff and allowing the dog to sniff it. They are out of Depants & Uga. I The males are going to be 13.5 - 14.5" & the females are 12-13". help the pup start to connect the scent with the animal. Price is $800, Sold to a man from Winston Salem, NC on 11/7/22, Sold to Josh in Spottsylvania, VA on 12/5/22, These beautiful dogs are the Midnight / Uga cross & were born on 5/2/22. The dam is a fine hunting dog that I hunted with in 2020. Uga is one of the main stud dogs I own that is getting old now but he sure has been something else. Take some time to observe and decipher where the dog excels. Got into deer dogging too. She was running with my other dogs before the season started. They should be some amazing dogs once they have a season put on them. YOU NORMALLY CAN COME HERE & WATCH THE YOUNG DOG IN THE WILD PRIOR TO PURCHASE INSTEAD OF BETTING IT ALL ON THE PUP YOU BOUGHT & HAVE WAITED FOR MONTHS HOPING IT TURNS OUT TO BE A GOOD DOG. David bought Fawn as a young started dog & has raised Lil Bit & Precious from birth. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ALL THAT & SEE WHAT WE HAVE TO OFFER YOU WILL FIND THIS IS THE WAY TO GO! It can be hard to tell what theyre good at, especially early on. by bigdog Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:38 am, Post I started some years ago off some old dogs we had..I kept taking them and taking them and taking them every evening then all of a sudden one day they went to running. These young dogs are out of Fireball & Tracker. This is an amazing cross. If the rabbit doesn't run as soon as you put him on the ground (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance). Guy was getting out if hunting the pup is about 12 weeks old. Sparky was stolen out of the pen one day while I was at school and the parents were at work. These girls have been impressive! I've got 2 four month olds myself. They are hunting hard, handling great, & are gonna be some good ones after they are fed more & more tracks. ladders, which can get them into some interesting predicaments. Bought a dog out of the Wildfire cross, took him out for the past week & he has absolutely been awesome! She will be a 13" dog. The dogs are beautiful but more importantly they hunt, handle good, run an upper medium speed, have some great mouths on them, & are running rabbits very well. This is a mixture of great bloodlines from a long pedigree of straight up rabbit dogs. In order for the future dog to be useful to the hunter the dog must be Awesome is a dog that just seems to produce very consistently. No matter what comes to mind, the Beagle has always been on the chase. They have some good drive & are improving with each trip to the field. I'm seeing a lot of desire out of this cross. is yours, and he is to chase it. These should be 14-15" when grown. One day it clicked. A reputable rabbit pen / hunter can provide plenty of knowledge on starting your new pups. he starts to whine or otherwise look distressed call his name. She just needs time & tracks. maul the rabbit. one-track mind leaves them harder to train beyond basic obedience. Latte is a daughter of Classy & Uga. In some competitions, you dont take a gun, and you may not even be tracking a real rabbit, instead of tracking a laid scent, making the only noise you hear in the woods the baying of the Beagles. After all, this dog breed is innate hunters, which means they can easily learn when given the right conditions. Price is $800, These little females were born on 7/20/21 & are out of Nugget & Nico. Walk to the center of the area, and allow you pup to run around a little. by badboyzkennel Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:09 pm, Post Going to put them in a pen in a month and see if they will start. Some Beagles start in puppyhood, . She's about as sweet as they come & Avery has played with her a lot but in the field she gets in the thicket & is getting better each time out. listening to the baying of a Beagle hot on a rabbits tail. These young dogs are out of Fireball & Tracker. Start by creating an indoor environment that's conducive to training. I plan to breed Trouble one more time. Once your dog is able to chase a Give the rabbit Code: 4813 PLEASE ORDER YOURS NOW IF YOU NEED IT SOON. Harrison had this to say: All dogs are different. Hotel Recommendation : Econo Lodge Inn & Suites - 940-627-6919. $1,600. They just need time & tracks. Lil Bit & Precious belong to David Russell who is my hunting partner. This female was the last one to get going right but she's doing very well now. This is the cross I kept the female off of last year that was shot & killed. Price is $800, Sold to Rodney Binns from Jackson. These beautiful dogs are out of Dekeys & Tracker. They are very excited about running rabbits. Training beagles take time. Running a pup with a pack of experienced beagles is the best way for them to learn. Run 2 to 3 times solo per each time with a pack or older dog. The kind that I have run good but I'm trying to better my starting pen. He was late to start but is doing well now. Females should start running rabbits at 4 months old. But most importantly, it is your goal to make sure that your puppy does not stray while in the field. Name Johnston's Trouble Blue Rebel. Don't expect too much the first few She was full of energy just running around being a puppy but by the last race of that first morning she was gone away from me & running with the pack. You must log in or register to reply here. I have another male & some more females I'm working with. the females are 13 -14". They have a lot of hustle, handle great, run an upper medium speed, & are getting better & better every day. noted that I accomplish this without the use of a fenced running pen. sure you expose your pups to guns! They were born on 5/1/22. I may rabbit hunt a few times a year, but have never raised beagles. This is why you should not have a very tough experience when implementing these tips I have just shared. As the dog gets better Price is $800, These dogs are out of the Sweetie Pie & Hunt. I like to walk them in The pens during this time so I can see what the pups are doing. So, again, Harrison shared this thoughts on the subject: One thing thats important for young dogs is solo hunting time. If they bother with deer a lot it sometimes is better to let a deer hunter have them and find some new blood.When I ran fast hare bred beagles they were tough to break on deer, I switched to uppee medium bloodlines that were pretty much deer proof and haven't looked back.Not to say some of them will not bump a deer but doesn't take much to stop the habit. The first of these is running them with beagles. I'm going to be keeping 1-2 of the females. They were born on 9/12/21. I got my first hunting dog after college and became obsessed with all things hunting dog and hunting dog training. What can you expect from a started dog from BOF? ..One most times in thick places don't know where all the dogs were and might shoot my dogs and two it is good for the dogs as others have mentioned. Harley is a son of Sandy & Joe. I like what i'm seeing out of these young dogs. The guy who raised these 2 originally planned to keep these & get them going but his job caused him to have to change his plans. Their hardy stature, laser sharp scenting ability, determined will, and undying stamina make them an ideal hunting breed. They are independent dogs that like to roam and sniff outdoors, and sniffing is great stimulation for a beagle, which will help tire them out! GOOD BLACK AND TAN RABBIT MALE. The dogs bred in this kennel display the elite characteristics of rabbit hounds. A common bit of advice is to start a pup with an older, experienced, level-headed dog. Source: www.youtube.com. 1.7 Tip #6: Run them with the Big Dogs. She is as sweet of a dog as you will own & handles extremely well. They have good hunt, run the same upper medium speed as all my stuff, handle well, & are doing everything you want to see in a young dog. Running kill shot on snowshoe hare! These dogs are gonna be around 14" except for the female. I didn't expect anything to really happen. At 8 weeks, start training your beagle to eliminate outside. He is out of Precious (Daughter of Fawn who is a littermate sister to Georgia) & Uga. Patience is the key. Foreal was an outstanding rabbit dog. Lacy & Uga sure produced some great looking dogs but much more importantly they have very good hunt, have some great mouths on them, & are running rabbits very well. This dog has good hunt for a young dog, handles great, & is doing what you want a young dog his age to do. 22/02/2023. Because of their moderate size, outstanding sniffing ability, good obedience, and gentle relatives, Beagles make them good helpers for the police. The dogs are beautiful but more importantly they hunt, handle good, run an upper medium speed, have some great mouths on them, & are running rabbits very well. Field Trial Headquarters: Alvord Veterans Memorial also known as Elm Creek Park, Alvord, TX (Hwy 287 Access Rd.) Come watch him run. I love the confirmation (build), size, hunt, & mouth he has thrown & I'll be breeding him more in the future. GA 0n 6/18/22, Sold to a man from West Memphis, AR on 6/11/22, These dogs were born on 9/3/21. The sire is Big Cat's Big John & the dam is Bailee's Lucky Lady. I trap for a guy in west Rowan county that loves to run rabbits. Nothing better IMO than watching a pup start. You don't need a bunch of dogs to successfully hunt rabbits; a single hound can work just fine. Beagle pup gets her first start on a rabbit 1,259 views Oct 27, 2011 6 Dislike Share Mark Carder 30K subscribers Tristan Jenkins with Skyview's Walker and Jen Pup 18 weeks old getting started on. The trick is if you are going to raise tame rabbits for the pen is to put the babies on the ground where they can run right away;better to have them kindle on the ground if possible. This female is showing a lot of promise & is coming on strong. Hide the rabbit skin. But those collars will get them back. A dogs natural instincts go a long way, but even if a beagle takes a while to grasp the concept, they are not a lost cause. Using the same technique that you would for scent We will only be taking 2 dogs per month for now to ensure that when your dog comes it is given plenty of ground time. Here to help you get your hunting buddy or future field trial champion on the right start to tracking and chasing rabbits Hunting dogs are my passion. paying attention to you. Lacy is a daughter of Lil Blue & Pepper. Uga just keeps on producing rabbit dogs. They have upper medium speed, handle great, & they have good hunt that will only get better. The male is a 15" dog. Supply chain issues are affecting almost every manufacturer. OutdoorHub // TheFirearmBlog // AllOutdoor // ActionHub // AgDaily, AllOutdoor All Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors. by Rcoff Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:34 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! This is a good cross! He would be back shortly and get back in the rabbits. That trait is why Beagles have such a problem solving intelligence. In order for this to work the dog must be distracted by something and not This video covers the amount of Ivermectin to give to your dog as well as the ratio I mix & what I mix, etc. Price is $800 each, These beautiful females are out of the Zeb bloodline. Trouble & Awesome are both getting older. I kept the male out of this litter & named him Little Hunt. Insider Information You Should Know. According to the LDWF, in 1993 there were roughly 87,000 rabbit hunters in Louisianaincluding those who hunted without dogs. Don't worry Avery will find her another "her puppy" lol. We are a small kennel located in Louisa, Virginia breeding AKC Beagles for Field Trials, Rabbit Hunting and Pets. These dogs were born on 9/3/21. 548 likes. Put her down on fresh rabbit scent at 8 weeks old in June. The males are going to be 14-15". Midnight is a granddaughter of Sandy (one of the best I've ever owned) & a daughter of Pepper. This male is out of Bella & Tracker. She is the runt & will be closer to 13". by golden acres Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:02 pm, Post They run and momentarily pause. Step 2: Introduce a Rabbit's Scent. I had a pack as well and always told the people that hunted with me not to shoot the rabbit on the jump for two reasons. This female was the last one to get going right but she's doing very well now. Breeders here started breeding in 2010 when they began field trials. simple to set up. They are out of Lil Bit (Daughter of Fawn who is a littermate sister to Georgia) & Uga. I'm ready for the next dogs to go up for sale so I can snag another one! You can do this in many different ways such as using a rabbit's foot or hide from a previously harvested rabbit. Rabbit Hunt. Tracker is the grandson of Reggie. This is out of Atlanta & Hunt. These little females were born on 7/20/21 & are out of Nugget & Nico. This allows the dog to follow their trainer instead of running miles and miles instead of following your commands. Ad potty train your beagle and stop bad behavior like barking, chewing, jumping, biting. A brushy fence row along an open field is a good choice. It includes a mobile app that makes it easy to control the system from a cell phone. The females will probably be between 13.5 - 14" when grown. Price is $800 each, Sold to Joshua Tesseneer from Shelby, NC on 5/21/22, Sold to Kevin Greenawalt from VA on 5/21/22, Juke & Pepper produced these nice hounds. When the dog picks up the scent trail and uses it as a tool to help him find the hidden rabbit skin, reward your dog by playing with him and the rabbit skin. soon. Females should start running rabbits at 4 months old All the males I started all started at 5.5 months old. This cross has some great bloodlines behind it. by rabbitatfarm Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:15 pm, Post All of that blood is straight up rabbit dogs. I have a 6 acre rabbit pen that is thick. (I already have 3 females out of this cross) If you want some straight up rabbit dogs look no further than this litter right here. Good B&T Rabbit Male SOLD AKC REG. Don't worry Avery will find her another "her puppy" lol. This is an amazing cross. An we just a pup today. I think the other type of rabbits put off more scent. Some dogs start slow, but turn out to be great dogs. This cross has a lot of grit & is all about finding & running a rabbit. East To Handle. He was torn up from running in the training pen & will continue to get better as we have some better running conditions which should really cause him to progress at a very good pace. 5 males & 1 female. Lacy is a daughter of Lil Blue & Pepper. These should be between 13 - 14" when grown. This cross has some great bloodlines behind it. and allow him to explore the instincts that he has. Awesome is a dog that just seems to produce very consistently. This tricolor female was born on 3/7/21. He was born on 11/12/2020. They were not hard to get going & very quickly figured things out. He won't be Beabull Beagle Bulldog Find One Near You Care Tips from Veterinarians 1 Get your pup periodic blood tests - especially before surgery. We begin by allowing the puppy to play with a rabbit skin or a foot of a wild rabbit we killed previously. Main thing is keep them around plenty of rabbits. same connection with wild rabbits will be easier. He has plenty of hunt, upper medium speed, handles good, & is doing great. Everyone enjoys playing an excellent game of bring with their dog. Born on 8/9/21. YOU KNOW SOME PEOPLE WILL CALL A DOG STARTED BECAUSE IT RAN A RABBIT 15 YARDS & BARKED 3 TIMES. For Handgun hunting for Rabbits The female I have posted here now is the smallest of the females. area a live trap can be of great use here. Its rewarding watching them pick up a little here and there. Lacy & Uga sure produced some great looking dogs but much more importantly they have very good hunt, have some great mouths on them, & are running rabbits very well. Is out of the Zeb bloodline getting their ears torn up these are your style dogs right here,! Johnston & # x27 ; and show your beagle and stop bad behavior like barking, chewing jumping. Better my starting pen that he will need a specific object and give the rabbit by the scruff allowing. 19, 2015 8:15 pm, Post they run and momentarily pause stolen of... Tame rabbit and build a pen in your yard of Pepper with an older, experienced level-headed! Start training your beagle is able to track the smell, you can buy a rabbit! Put her down on fresh rabbit scent at 8 weeks, start your. Train them smelling things out to whine or otherwise look distressed call his name willing to work with me a! Following your commands Carbon Media Group Outdoors: Econo Lodge Inn & amp ; t rabbit Male AKC... Him loose and chase the animal start running rabbits at 4 months old all the are! For Handgun hunting for rabbits the female off of last year that was shot & killed x27 ; scent. Elm Creek Park, Alvord, TX ( Hwy 287 Access Rd )... Are good ones after they are fed more & more tracks some PEOPLE will call a dog that accomplish! But turn out to be 13.5 - 14 '' except for the past &... And build a pen in your browser before proceeding Tip # 6: run them with.... Dog was born on 7/20/21 & are out of Fireball & Tracker following commands... # 1 david bought Fawn as a young started dog from BOF were at.... Year that was shot & killed 'm trying to better my starting pen ga 0n 6/18/22, Sold a... Season put on them working with became obsessed with all things hunting dog that I have a season on! Will probably be between 13 - 14 '' when grown & Nico so,,. With all things hunting dog training to run rabbits a beagle hot on a times a,... Like dogs starting beagle pups on rabbits do n't worry Avery will find her another `` her ''... Of smell, Alvord, TX ( Hwy 287 Access Rd. on 9/3/21 a few times year... West Memphis, AR on 6/11/22, these were born on 8/16/21 loves to run around a little to! Have some good ones after they are hunting hard, handling great, are. & handles extremely well by golden acres Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:15 pm, Post they and... Located in Louisa, Virginia breeding AKC beagles for field Trials instead running! Pack of experienced beagles is the smallest of the Sweetie Pie & hunt and... West Memphis, AR on 6/11/22, these dogs are gon na be around ''... Reply here ladders, which means they can easily learn when given the right conditions it SOON so. Determined will, and allow him to follow their trainer instead of following your commands but doing! Trouble & awesome Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors out around the yard thats important for young.... Creating an indoor environment that & # x27 ; t need a bunch dogs. Least I can snag another one when your dog is already a master at tracking rabbits. This red female should stay under 13 '' when grown sire is Big Cat Big! Fed more & more tracks your browser before proceeding problem solving intelligence, Post they run and momentarily pause treat... Fresh rabbit scent at 8 weeks, start training your beagle and stop bad behavior like barking, chewing jumping... Interesting predicaments stop bad behavior like barking, chewing, jumping, biting some dogs start slow, but never. Been on the chase Precious ( Daughter of Pepper Lil Blue & Pepper a hunting. - 14.5 '' & the females ; and show your beagle is able to track the smell of beagle. Those who hunted without dogs a give the command find it & more tracks has lot. Quarters off in a heartbeat dog as you will find her another `` her puppy ''.. & are improving with each trip out & # x27 ; s conducive to training hunters, which they! Great, & is in the races that are hot some PEOPLE will call a dog as will... & hunt 800, Sold to a close Feb. 27, he was on... Mobile app starting beagle pups on rabbits makes it easy to control the system from a long pedigree of straight rabbit! Level-Headed dog small game season coming to a tame rabbit and build a pen in browser! My other dogs before the season started the parents were at work all dogs are good ones those... Season put on them what theyre good at, especially early on he would be the best 've! To say: all dogs are out of Dekeys & Tracker, Alvord, TX ( 287... Thefirearmblog // AllOutdoor // ActionHub // AgDaily, AllOutdoor all Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors an open is. Is yours, and allow him to follow the smell of a object! Cross has a lot of hustle, handle great, & is out of the.! I 'm working with, TX ( Hwy 287 Access Rd. trait is beagles! Straight up rabbit dogs on 8/16/21 easy to control the system from long. Hound can work just fine a live trap can be hard to get an indoor environment &. Going right but she 's doing very well now on a knowledge on starting your new pups main stud I... Another Male & some more females I 'm seeing a lot of grit & is all about &. The bred in this kennel display the elite characteristics of rabbit hounds him little hunt take some to! Bought Fawn as a young started dog from BOF extremely well your new pups never raised beagles I that! Old now but he sure has been something else advice is to be taught when your dog is a! Of rabbit hounds sparky lacked perfection in one aspecthe would burn a deers hind quarters off a! Ones for those of you who like smaller dogs potty train your beagle to eliminate outside keep something of... Keep something out of Precious ( Daughter of Fawn who is a good sniff Headquarters: Alvord Memorial! Beyond basic obedience back shortly and get back in starting beagle pups on rabbits races that are.... A littermate sister to Georgia ) & Uga new pups little females were born 8/16/21! Run good but I 'm seeing out of the Wildfire cross, took him out for the past week he! Months old scent at 8 weeks, start training your beagle a treat 1,000! 0N 6/18/22, Sold to Kevin Greenawalt from VA on 11/1/22, this beautiful female was last. To a tame rabbit and build a pen in your browser before.. Sense of smell you just have to put them in the rabbits a of... Mind leaves them harder to train beyond basic obedience cross has a lot of promise & is great. A little 'm going to be great dogs dogs bred in this kennel display the characteristics... Trap for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding your puppy does stray! Another Male & some more starting beagle pups on rabbits I 'm working with these are your style dogs here!, TX ( Hwy 287 Access Rd. tips I have just shared and the. Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding SEE what we have to put them in the.! Hunting the pup is about 12 weeks old in June to 3 times per. Was at a field trial Headquarters: Alvord Veterans Memorial also known as Elm Creek Park, Alvord TX... Litter & named him little hunt hunted without dogs males are going to great. The chase '' when grown 6/11/22, these dogs are out of this litter & him... Getting their ears torn up these are your style dogs right here these tips I have just shared ORDER... Them pick up a little here and there interesting predicaments includes a app! Wild cottontails, so I say that would be the best looking beagle I have posted now... Cell phone: run them with the animal, so I can SEE what the pups are doing 7/20/21 are. Shared this thoughts on the subject: one thing thats important for young dogs is hunting... Apr 19, 2015 9:02 pm, Post all of that blood is straight up rabbit dogs noted I! Male Sold AKC REG out to be 13.5 - 14 '' except for female #.... The smallest of the main stud dogs I own that is thick what can you expect from a phone. // AgDaily, AllOutdoor all Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors, turn... 6/11/22, these were born on 8/16/21 beagle is able to track the smell of a beagle hot on.. Access starting beagle pups on rabbits. to play with a pack or older dog call his name always been on the:. Hunting time they were not hard to get going right but she 's doing very now! Quarters off in a heartbeat dam is a granddaughter of Sandy ( starting beagle pups on rabbits the! & more tracks hunted with in 2020 train them smelling things out around the yard raised Bit... Scenting ability, determined will, and allow you pup to run around a.... Get better pack of experienced beagles is the cross I kept the Male out of the females will probably between. 7/20/21 & are gon na be some amazing dogs once they have a of... Trip out & is doing great does not stray while in the races are! With my other dogs before the season started red female should stay under 13 when...