This is also the reason that Deborah and Max have never liked each other, they both love Noodles and there is a deep jealousy between them, because they BOTH want Noodles. Yes, and that was largely the point of me going through the narrative of my relationship with this movie, having thought that rape would be treated with lightness, or it would be sidelined. Once Upon a Time in America (Extended Director's Cut) Robert De Niro (Actor), Joe Pesci (Actor), Sergio Leone (Director, Writer) Rated: R Format: DVD 4,449 ratings IMDb 8.3/10.0 $1604 Get Fast, Free Shipping with Amazon Prime FREE Returns Prime Video Blu-ray $96.97 DVD $16.04 Multi-Format $74.24 VHS Tape $9.95 Additional DVD options Edition Discs why? You think, "Boy, these characters have lost all likability they ever had." That pastry was expensive and something he could never afford to get for himself. Once Upon a Time Season 5 episode 5 Sneak Peek #2 (Once Upon a Time 5x05 Sneak Peek #2) 29:40. A second possibility is that the rape had nothing to do with it and she was simply attracted to the money. He chooses a treat over sex. How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? It was written by Herschel Noodles Goldberg, under the pen name of Harry Grey while he was serving time in Sing-Sing Prison. June 1, 1984 Runtime 3hrs 49mins (229 mins) Rating R Starring Robert De Niro James Woods Elizabeth McGovern Scott Tiler Treat Williams Once Upon a Time in America is a 1984 epic crime drama film co-written and directed by Italian filmmaker Sergio Leone and starring Robert De Niro and James Woods. Has Microsoft lowered its Windows 11 eligibility criteria. The two scenes where the act occurs differ so wildly in the reactions of those witnessing, the reactions of the victims, and consequences of the action, that it drove home the themes of regret and lost love in the most direct possible way. I can't believe you just wrote all that out and what it meant to the movie and you end with is it justified? He died in the opium den. girl where he previously would have "shared the wealth". He speeds the car into the bay. All of which is to say that Once Upon a Time in America remains the most "problematic" of Leone's major pictures. Deborah might have been receptive to Maxs initial advances partly out of revenge against Noodles for raping her. Of course Deborah knew who Bailey, her life partner, was. Bailey to acquire Deborah, in essence using wealth to "hoard" Noodles' He can aim a camera at De Niros spoon in a coffee cup for three minutes and never lose the audiences rapt attention. Who was trying to kill Noodles in Once Upon a Time in America? When the teenage Deborah refuses to open the door to tend to Noodles wounds that has just been beaten up by Bugsy and his gang, she does it because she wants to shut him out (literally and metaphorically) and because she doesn't want to be dragged down by him, as she knows she would be if she lets him in. When Max and Noodles, and the gang defuse the situation, rather than ignite it, it is a lesson in the dangerous balance of suspense. Max takes as his mistress Noodles' first 'rape' victim, Carol. Hed planned this all along. I know this isn't an answer, but I think this storyline is more poetic and interpretive than something we are supposed to analyze from a character point of view. Regarded as a classic now, Once Upon a Time in America completely bombed at the box office in 1984. Trigger uses his suppressed P210 to intimidate Fat Moe. This is future Oscar winner Jennifer Connellys first movie. And it gives me a hard-on.". In response to the first post, they're Jewish not Italian and if you were paying attention, after the lineup where she's supposed to pick out her rapist she kisses Noodles then gets a really sad look on her face. Now go back with that in mind and watch the movie again, and again! The first scene shows his gangster friends virtually ignoring the act. He walks out, and boom, we're at the table with him and his childhood love. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Forward Contracts I.A.7.2 Principles of Pricing and Valuation for Forward Contracts on Assets I.A.7.2.1 The Value at Time 0 of a Forward Contract I.A.7.2.2 The Value at Expiration of a Forward Contract on an Asset I.A.7.2.3 The Value Prior to Expiration of a Forward . But the 35-year gap between the slaughter of Noodles crew and the introduction of Secretary Bailey is almost unfathomable. By contrast, no matter how far they climb, Leones characters never really get off the block. Still, I can't help but feel uncomfortable when it appears on screen. Life can be really really shitty. ;-) You provide some neat insights but I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to say with this answer. In fact. The first time, Deborah catches David "Noodles" Aaronson spying on her and recites it to him; and the second time, David "Noodles" Aaronson recites it to Deborah while they are on the beach. This website works best with modern browsers such as the latest versions of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Edge. is a multi millionaire, with valuable assets, a grand mansion and a 50. Ultimately, Noodles ends up with very little, but his old friend James Woods can't really feel he's part of the society he wants to be a part of, and in his own mind can't shake off the 'stink of the streets,' even though he got the new name, the money, and the girl. As part of an interstellar experiment, a group of death row inmates embark on a dangerous mission. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Track Listing Released: September 18, 2012 Released: March 31, 2003 Morricone 60 Close. You then realize where Leone has taken you -- the first scene was prelude to the second. When he makes his fortune, he believes that this will convince Deborah to marry him and MAYBE she would have if he had been prepared to choose HER instead of Max and the gangster life-style; but Noodles is not a hugely intelligent individual and he blows his chance with Deborah by not putting her first. PTIJ Should we be afraid of Artificial Intelligence? Wouldn't concatenating the result of two different hashing algorithms defeat all collisions? The simple answer is that she needed a patron to allow her to act. he treated it with the seriousness it always deserves. Unrelated: they obviously spent a lot of money to make a 4hr movie but they can't use realistic blood when someone gets beat up or shot? After watching a Sopranos episode with a too-much, look-away rape scene that almost ruined the series for me, I became uncomfortable with any work of media where rape is portrayed. In the scene that shortly precedes the one you're referring to, Deborah and Noodles are alone in Deborah's father restaurant. However, they make more sense and tell a different story when analyzed as part of Noodles trying to reconcile what he knows happened with how he views himself. 1:57. Alta Vista Productions. The shootings and stabbings are neat jobs compared with the beatings, which allow far more artistic renderings of gore, and pass extreme scrutiny. I first interviewed Zo Field of Field of Roses here on the Floret blog way back in 2016 when I wanted to learn more about the farmer-florist movement in New Zealand. 21 comments. There is a very nonchalant attitude toward violence and other demeaning acts against women in Leones film, from the very opening scene where a thug fondles a womans breast with his gun in order to humiliate her civilian date. But you'd lock me up and throw away the key, wouldn't you? The earliest is 1918 in the Jewish ghettos of New York Citys Lower East Side. He has a far more limitless pallet to draw from. She also embodies the fluid chronology of the storytelling. We know little of Michael Corleone (Al Pacino) or Sonny as youngsters, much less teenagers, and are robbed of their happier moments of bonding. He put his gun away and eked out a quiet life. I was seriously hesitant to watch Leone's Once Upon a Time in America, almost exclusively because I had read that multiple rape scenes occur throughout the film. you see him for a second. How can I change a sentence based upon input to a command? If you open that door, you won't even have your memories anymore. This article contains Once Upon a Time in America spoilers. 16. Now why dont you shoot? This final betrayal, and Noodles inert revenge, take Once Upon a Time In America into almost unexplored cinematic depths. I think that it is beside the point, in terms of the writers of the film, what Deborah wants or what her point of view is. Hes a romantic. There are so many details that could be understood as just part of the story told chronologically in a straight forward manner. What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? The last time Noodles was with Deborah before, he was raping her. With William Forsythe playing the grown-up Cockeye and James Hayden as Patsy, the mobsters go from bootlegging through contract killing, and ultimately to backing the biggest trucking union in the country as enforcers. It seems highly unlikely Deborah didn't know Max's true identity. There's a moment when the first rape victim touches him, offering a threesome with her and James Woods, and he rejects her and says, "I'm not that kind of guy." In the end, Max wants Noodles to kill him and get revenge for ruining his life. A PROGRESS REPORT ON THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 108th Congress (2003-2004) House Committee Meeting Hide Overview . It makes me feel good. The more complex answer is that everything that happens after Noodles informs on Max to prevent them all getting killed robbing the Federal Reserve is a dream in Noddles's mind. There are many layers to this movie once you view it as Sergio Leone's idea of how these people at this time in America would behave in the circumstances he created. And possessing Deborah, Noodles life-long romantic ideal, would be Maxs crowning achievement. This is deliberate. The cut first screened at Cannes ran to 269 minutes. His friend and the love of his life, Noodles. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Integral with cosine in the denominator and undefined boundaries. Only later does he realise that he has ruined whatever chance he ever had with the love of his life by this one revolting and despicable act. . Throughout the film, Max is driven to sexually possess the women Noodles has already had. He doesn't have a chance of happiness, at least not with her. Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man (2008); Jonathan Majors as Kang in Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023) Photo: Paramount/Courtesy Everett Collection; Marvel Studios. Once Upon a Time is set in three time-frames. When I think of this movie or any other, I think of the filmmaker's perspective, not the characters' alone. And Deborah also knows that Noodles puts friendship and loyalty above anything else, above his own good and that he will always respond to Max's call ("Go on, Noodles, your mother's calling you", she mocks him). Max would have taken the money, hooked up with the unions, gotten rich, gone into politics, gotten old and eventually into trouble. More appalling is the rape that seems to become consensual sex in For a Few Dollars More. It is so plainly laid out, and so beautifully rendered. why Deborah doesn't seem to have aged . He is so deeply hurt, and so angry that his love is going to be leaving him, probably forever, that for a moment he is in the grip of some kind of madness. The scene is a prelude to the second - I think it's arguable that Noodles sees how she reacts, assumes this is just "how women work" and then applies that learning to Deborah, with vile results. And like the Dead End kids, they needle their mark, and joke with each other. It strikes a chord with me on a level that even torture and murder do not reach. but was written and directed by Italian director Sergio Leone. After a lavish dinner date, Deborah again rebuffs Noodles, saying she is going to Hollywood to become an actress. She has never felt such anger and coldness from Noodles, and she doesn't like it, she wants them to part as friends so she leans in and gently kisses him. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. rev2023.3.1.43269. Deborah would have done what she needed to do to become the famous actress she dreamed of being. In the dressing room she told noodles. - Metascore: 77. Once Upon a Time in America The extended director's cut of Once Upon a Time in America runs 251 minutes. Every night I used to think about you. That question was secondary to the main point of my post; I wanted to let anyone who thought that rape is something that shouldn't ever be put in film to make that argument, such as some feminist perspective I was missing. He is the TV Editor at Entertainment. But what are those red flags supposed to tell the viewer is what I don't quite gather from your answer. Noodles then does what young men in coming-of-age movies have done since Cooley High: Something really stupid. Once Upon a Time in America Edit For its U.S. theatrical release the film was cut by 90 minutes from 3 hours and 47 minutes to 2 hours and 19 minutes despite the original cut gaining rave reviews at the film's premiere at Cannes. When Once Upon a Time in America first ran in theaters, there were reports that people in the audience laughed when Deborah is reintroduced after a 35-year gap in the action. Many film critics gave two separate reviews for the film. And the only reason she is married to Max in the future is to add tragedy and pathos to the betrayal of Noodles by Max. She has already rejected him at that point. Yet I think she had already seen (and known) Max back in the 30s. Fat Moe conducts the speakeasy orchestra through Jos Mara Lacalle Garcas Amapola while grinning dreamily to Deborah who is chatting with Noodles. The Godfather is a great movie, possibly the best ever made. All his sexual experiences are shown up to that point to be paid for (by him or Max) or taken by force. In this chapter, I discuss case-studies that have used animal-cognition principles in conservation. While I wouldn't go as far as to think the 60s part was only a dream (and am not implying that you do), I still like your general approach. I thought it was more knowingly destructive rather than a last ditch effort to win her over. Can the Spiritual Weapon spell be used as cover? Has Microsoft lowered its Windows 11 eligibility criteria? In the back of the diner, amongst "the brooms and the empties" where she usually practices her dancing, she reads him the "Song of Songs" and reveals her true feelings for him, but warning him at the same time, while also mocking him, that they could never be together as long as Noodles remains a "two-bit punk" a street gangster ("what a shame"): Deborah has understood that in order to be with Noodles she would be bound to give up her dreams of fame and glory, and she just won't do that, as she clearly explains to Noodles few years later when they are dining in the exclusive restaurant by the sea (the following quote is circa at 2:15 in the subsequent clip) : Deborah: Noodles you're the only person that I have ever Deborah: that I ever cared about. He had hurt and violated the one person that he loved more than anyone else in the world and this is the reason that Deborah is very easy on him when he turns up in her dressing room all those years later, she doesn't scream or rage at him because she knows he has already suffered a life sentence of regret for what he did to her and she has finally forgiven him. Get the best of Den of Geek delivered right to your inbox! In 1918, when Noodles is age 14 or 15, he forms a gang with his friends Phillip "Cockeye" Stein, Patrick "Patsy" Goldberg and a young Italian boy named Dominic. strengths and weaknesses of interpersonal communication; importance of set design in theatre; biltmore forest country club membership cost. Noodles life was in ruins from the moment he raped Deborah, and he was never truly happy again. You's both alike, that's why you hate each other. Noodles is confuseddoes Deborah want him to make love to her? Its hard when you are young to visualize someone you are crazy about getting old so Noodles couldnt visualize it like he did for everyone else. Characters, settings, situations, and relationships all have themes, which become as recognizable as the Prohibition-era songs which flavor the period pieces ambience. We know they are close, they are family. Why did Deborah start a relationship with Bailey? Today they ask us to get rid of Joe. The music becomes part of the action in Once Upon a Time in America. Long before Martin Scorseses The Irishman stripped gangster lore to a tale of toxic masculinity, Once Upon a Time in America robbed it of all glamor. Once Upon a Time in America ups the ante though. Making his integrity the prevailing SCORE of his destiny. The rapes were in fact probably the most important plot points. But torture (in more 'minor' forms, if you can call it that), is even on network TV, in Bond films, etc. rev2023.3.1.43269. 10 / 100. Just want to point out that the main characters in this movie were Jewish. The gangs shared secret bankroll was empty when he tried to retrieve it as the last surviving member. Max, now played by Woods, has become a successful bootlegger with a mortuary business on the side. Max reinvents himself, literally assuming a new identity, and becomes just the kind of successful, upwardly mobile type that would attract Deborah. He even admits the whole thing was a syndicate sting operation having his own body identified and living in Noodles' place Deborah probably had no involvement in this but Noodles' comparison of her to Max made an impression and that much more sweet and bitter betrayal for the both. The Godfather, which glorifies crime as corporate misadventure, is a serious movie with no time for funny business. Notably, the characters are narrating it according to their own understanding of the Song, so neither version is quite accurate. She is its only constant. He doesn't ruin his chance at happiness. The locations where the shooting took place were in and around US, Canada, Italy, and France, with a focal point in New York City. They enjoy most of their downtime in their childhood friend Fat Moes (Larry Rapp) speakeasy. i barely made it through the 4hrs of this movie. so much of it was so boring and drawn out. The bulk of the film takes place, however, from when De Niros Noodles gets out of prison in 1930, following Bugsys murder, and lasts until the end of Prohibition in 1933. Deborah occasionally seems to reciprocate his feelings but usually rebuffs him. Leone planned this film for years near the end of his life. Most of his old friends, like longtime. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Was Galileo expecting to see so many stars? Movies & TV Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for movie and TV enthusiasts. But Deborah is representational to Leone, beyond the character. Noodles is genuinely puzzled by Debbie's 'strange' reaction, and this is why he carries on with the ghastly rape, he figures that if he 'keeps going' and 'gives her a bit more' she will start to enjoy it like Carol did, poor, ignorant, foolish Noodles. She hooks up with Max because that is all Noodles knows. He could've and should've stopped the second he heard her scream..not 20min later. And I like the smell of it, it opens up my lungs. Here, the streets of New York press in upon the characters and demand greater narrative cohesion. Of course, there is the famous "it was an opium dream" theory supported by the fact that the movie ends on Noodles in the opium den in the past. She plays young Deborah, the young girl who becomes the woman between Noodles and Max, and she even has something of a catch-phrase, Go on Noodles your mother is calling. Elizabeth McGovern delivers the line as adult Deborah. First 'rape ' victim, Carol n't have a chance of happiness, at least not her! 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