Its cheap, easy to shoot, and most importantly, effective on whitetail in close quarters. Ballistics Contributor Brad Fenson is back in the kitchen with another recipe for uplanders across the continent. The .35 Rem., by contrast, can be much more difficult to find. If he doesnt, his old man did, and he still has strong opinions about which cartridge performs better in the field. I have one, and I like it a lot. Personally, at the ranges that these cartridges are used, I could easily call it a draw. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. load of 17.0 grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1400 fps. Driving a 160-grain jacketed bullet to a velocity of just over 2300 fps, it represented a fantastic hunting cartridge for its time. This could be the most frequently debated rifle cartridge matchup on the planet. Campfire Ranger. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Remington Model 700 American Hunter Rifle Project, .358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum, .25-06 Remington vs. .257 Weatherby Magnum, Head to Head: .30-30 Winchester vs. .35 Remington, Head to Head: .338-06 A-Square vs. .35 Whelen, Head to Head: .458 Win. The .35 Remington was one of a quartet of cartridges released by Remington in 1906, and it was chambered for the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. starting load is also 17.0 grains and the MV 1658 fps. from my E.R. The .35 Remington uses the 180- and 200-grain .358caliber bullets, and while light-for-caliber, they are effective at the ranges a .35 Remington is used, which is usually inside of 150 yards. The .35 Remington load using the 150-grain Core-Lokt obtains just about the same muzzle velocity, with a bullet having a lower B.C. .351 cartridge enjoyed a rather long production life. Depending on the load, 150 yards may be a better estimate. Another interesting tidbit about the .35 Remington is the alleged use of a Remington Model 8 chambered in the cartridge by legendary Texas Ranger Frank Hamer in the final ambush that killed Bonnie & Clyde in 1934. History [ edit] Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL). For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. 223 Remington 243 Win 300 AAC Blackout 300 Win Mag 45-70 5.56x45mm NATO 6.5mm Creedmoor 7.62x39mm View All Calibers Rimfire Ammo 17 . Younger hunters seem fixated on shooting further. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. Re: 35 Remington vs. 358 Winchester. of energy. One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. It is very accurate, easy to carry and fast on the target. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. G. gunswizard. In particular, the .35 Remington offers a marked advantage over the .30-30 Winchester when hunting very large, tough, and/or dangerous game like moose and grizzly bear. .30-30 Win. I remember in Washington in the early 70s my older brother pulled up in his truck with the biggest elk Id ever seen. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is amazing, and unique enough to add true value to your gun colle. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. [1] .35 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge diagram. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchesters now-legendary 1894 lever-action. For me, that puts it over the top. Winchester action. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. These advertisements typically featured hunters fearlessly facing down wolves and grizzly bears with their trusty Remington Auto-Loading Rifle chambered in the potent .35 Remington cartridge. Im old enough to remember when the lever guns were still highly popular among deer hunters, and my own rifle, as shiny and unproven as it was in comparison to the older gents worn pieces with bluing rubbed off and stock finish dulled by the elements, was a source of pride. in 1957 and .351 ammunition was offered for several years after that. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). The .35 Rem. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. It is true that the cartridge has its limitations, but used under the right circumstances, itis an outstanding choice. Modern reloaders will have trouble finding .351 WSL brass The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. In the eastern United States where black bear and deer are typically hunted in dense timber over bait and from stands, or where theyre rooted out of the dark forest or thickets by savvy woodsmen, the .35 Remington seems to be preferred. Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. It is capable of driving a. lcw #12400267 11/15/17. Now, in this comparison, I will freely admit that the .35 Remington is not legal for those areas for which the 350 Legend was designed, as the .35 Remington is a bottle-necked cartridge, but there has been quite a bit of rumbling among those hunters who appreciate the short to mid-range cartridges, about whether or not the switch to the new cartridge is worthwhile. Which cartridge wins? the standard .357"-.358" used by modern .35 caliber cartridges. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. The .358 Win. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. If you own a .270, your buddy probably owns a .30-06. $735 + $40 SHIPPING to your FFL DEALER.This gun is chambered in the WINCHESTER 35 CAL. He was born in 1921 and later served as a navy corpsman in Japan and Korea. The .35 Remington was releasedas one of a quartet of rimless cartridges from Remingtonin 1906; it is a rimless affair designed for their Model 8 autoloading rifle. Which is the more useful cartridge? Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. Of the Winchester cartridges, only the .30-30 Win. And the Winner Is Buffalo Bore also produces 220gr loads that they claim reach a velocity of 2,200 feet per second (2,364 foot pounds). Its flatter trajectory helps hunters reach across the open country, and I doubt theres a real ranch west of the big river that doesnt have a .30/30 lever-gun behind the kitchen door, if not behind the truck seat. In its day, the .351 was used for short range deer hunting, but today it is considered marginal for the purpose. Bottles & 12-oz. I can Takedown Model, . And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Using the lighter .358-inch diameter bullets weighing 150 to 200 grains, the .35 Remington gave enough power to cleanly take a deer, bear or similar sized animals, without pounding the shooters shoulder to jelly. Make sure you follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. Speaking of range, neither cartridge is designed for long-range accuracy. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. This is partly due to the wide availability of ammo and partly due to the cartridges extended reach. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. The trouble is, they didnt sell. Additionally, I recorded an entire podcast episode on this exact subject. In 2022, he was named as the brands Shooting Editor. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. If you shoot a .35 Remington, I see no reason whatsoever to stop doing so, just make sure you keep an ample supply of whatever load your rifle likes. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. It has far more knockdown power than the .30-30 under any conditions at any range. It never has been and never will be a good long range cartridge, but if anything,modern loadings using high quality bullets have further improved the performance of the .35 Remington on big game at short to moderate range. Americas Other Levergun by Glen E. Fryxell, The Great Model 8 & 81 by Richard Jones,Bullet Frontal Area List, by Chuck Hawks, andtheLyman 50th Edition(p309-310) andHornady 10th Edition(p682-683) reloading manuals were used as references for this article. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. Versatility Dont be fooled by its somewhat anemic looking ballistics on paper when compared to newer cartridges sporting fancy pointed tips and blazing fast velocities. Remington introduced the .35 about 10 years later in 1906 alongside their Model 8 semi-automatic rifle. I tried three of Winchesters five loads at SHOT Shows Industry Day at the Range, and all were a pleasure to shoot and plenty accurate. Introduced only two years apart, the .223 Remington and the .243 Winchester couldnt have come from more different neighborhoods of the firearms world. Here's the inside story of what they found and how they're rebuilding an industry giant. I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. Campfire Ranger. Both generate between 1,800 and 1,900 ft.-lbs. But theres a reason the .30-30 has been around for the last 126 years. It is believed that Frank Hammer fired the opening burst into Bonnie & Clydes 1934 Ford with a Model 8 in .35. Something to think about if you really want a .348 Winchester based cartridge. .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1751 fps. In this article, Im going to conduct a detailed analysis of the .35 Remington in an effort to cut through some of the myths and misunderstandings out there regarding the capabilities of the cartridge so you can make an informed decision regarding whether or not you should hunt with one. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. Even when using the standard factory loads, the .35 Remington is an outstanding round for use on medium sized game such as whitetail deer, feral hogs, and black bear at short ranges. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. It has never failed me. An experimental Thompson submachine gun was also made to fire .351 SL in 1919 but was never produced commercially. He gave me 200 trade in on the 35 whelen barrel and the 358 was 295 plus shipping. For those close range shots, the trusty old .35 Remington has few equals. For those interested in wringing out all of the power available in the .35 Remington, there are a couple of other .35 Remington ammunition options besides the standard 200gr soft point loads listed above. barrel. These strengths along with the Marlin 336 ease of carry (foot or horseback) and its open iron sights make it possibly the best bear protection firearm out there. Joined: Feb 2010. Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. The most common load is a 200gr round nose soft point traveling between 2,000 and 2,100 feet per second. There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. I live in the Wind River valley of Wyoming in grizzly country. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. For most loads in either cartridge, hunters shouldnt expect to reliably take game past 200 yards. .30-30 Win. Id be hunting deer with my father the following season, and that alone was a dream come true. The 200 grain bullet has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,225 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds. Savage Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter. Mag..404 Jeffery vs. .416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs. .300 Win. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. Spl. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. and .351" JSP bullets. of energy at 200 yards, dropping 7.5 inches when using a 100-yard zero. Contrary to what Gen Z shooters might think, traditionally styled lever-action rifles are not just relics or a way to get your cowboy fix. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. Of the four rifle cartridges introduced with the Remington Model 8, the .35 Remington was by far the most popular and is the only one still in production. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. . all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. The .35 Rem. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. with a similar 180-grain bullet. The original .35 Remington loadgenerated over 1,900 foot pounds of energy and quickly became a favorite among American hunters. is a classic Army brat. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. Its even more effective when using some of the hotter loads (like those from Buffalo Bore) available on the market. It was not designed for a lever-action rifle. I love a good underdog story (not to mention a less common cartridge), and I was hoping to be able to justify giving the nod to the .35 Rem. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. It is believed that. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. For comparison, a .270 Winchester produces about 17 ft.-lbs. Lyman mold #350319. It was not designed for a lever-action rifle. 1.380" long that uses small rifle primers. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. It wasn't and isnt a long-range cartridge, but at distances inside of 125 to 150 yards, the .35 Remington surely gets the job done. As Barnes puts it, the .35 Rem. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. It has accounted for almost all, if not all, North American game species, and the famous African PH Wally Johnson used one to kill lions in his early years in Mozambique. Alongside the .25, .30 and .32 Remington, the .35 would be the only survivor. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. Comparing the two in spite of the weight difference, youll see the 350 obtaining 2100 fps at the muzzle, and the .35 Remington cruising along at 2080 fps; not a whole lot of difference, though Id have to give the edge to the .35 Remington for a bit more sectional density with the slightly heavier bullet. The maximum load for Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? Developed in the days before ballistic coefficient was a talking point at gun counters, these cartridges tend to use wide, stubby bullets that cant maintain velocity at extended ranges. Today, thats not so much the case; the .30/30 is pushing the .35 out the door and its popularity or whats left of it will probably die with Generation X. Mag. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. Ohio and southern Michigan are just two examples of areas where the shotgun slug has been replaced by straight-walled cartridges like the .45-70 Government, .444 Marlin and, more recently, the .450 Bushmaster. Richard Mann was born and raised in West Virginia and has hunted from the Montana mountains to the green hills of Africa. Read on for his take on this Thai-inspired fusion dish. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. These bullets weigh 171 grains with a .348 caliber gas value, so you might see a bit more drop and lower velocity at 200 yards, but inside of 150 yards, I highly doubt youd note much of a difference. Those same characteristics that made the .35 Remington such an effective choice on really large animals during the 20th Century still ring true today. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. Using the same case head diameter of the .223 Remington at a length of 1.71-inch, the 350 Legend uses a .357-inch diameter bullet, for a combination that is very easy on the shoulder while being effective downrange. Instead, it was first chambered in Remington's Model 8 auto-loading rifle. Dubbed by Winchester as the fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world, the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. Lead bullets can be case from #2 alloy using While it has been chambered in many different rifles, the combination of the Marlin Model 336 rifle and the .35 Remington has achieved true classic status, in spite of the fact that the rifle was introduced 1948. Soon after, the classic 150- and 170-grain loads took root, and due to the tubular magazines of so many popular rifles, round nose bullets were employed. The .35SL proved popular at first with the general public as a short-range deer and black bear hunting cartridge, but was soon superseded by the introduction of the more powerful .351SL in the Winchester '07. or the .35 Remington All rights reserved. The heavy, slow moving bullets deliver bone crushing power and do not produce large amounts of ruined, blood shot meat that high velocity cartridges do. Hunters like how it hits hard and makes a big hole. Whether you're shooting a break-action, pump-action, or semiautomatic, Sign up for the Field & Stream newsletter and get the latest intelligence straight to your inbox. If you don't intend to hunt beyond 200Yards, save you money keep your 35 Rem in a Marlin platform and scope it with a Leupold. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. Winchester sold both soft point and FMJ ammunition for the .351 SL cartridge over the years. A 35 Rem or .358 Win would have been perfect for the situation. I double lunged a buck with a 225gr. The 2019 SHOT Show saw the release of the latest cartridge from Winchester: the 350 Legend. Even when using loads on the upper end of the performance envelope for the cartridge, the .35 Remington still has a relatively slow velocity and low ballistic coefficient. For a more detailed discussion on .35 Remington hunting ammunition, read this article: Best .35 Remington Ammo For Hunting Deer, Bear & Other Big Game. 1906 alongside their Model 8 auto-loading rifle when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows.350! 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