Until the advent of the .444 Marlin it was the most powerful cartridge ever chambered in a lever-action rifle. cartridge came about in 1904, chambered in the Winchester Model 1895 rifle. ME: 3,800 ft-lbs. Well imagine what they do when I tell them 52 grains of H4198 pushes the same bullet over 2600 fps and 3900 ft.lbs of muzzle energy! All RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. The .405 WCF. The original Winchester factory load consisted of a . The Model 94 TE is also chambered in the ubiquitous .30-30 Win. At 50 yards offhand I could keep all of my shots in a volleyball with a relatively rapid rate of fire. Marlin introduced the .444 Marlin in 1964. 444 marlin vs 45-70 recoil When it comes to recoil, a 444 has less recoil than a 45 70. However, what really caught the eye of hunters at the time was the fact that the rifle was also available in the brand new .30 US Army (aka .30-40 Krag) cartridge. I have a had number of folks tell me the case head on the 444 is to large for 50,000 cup. The .405 Winchester was first introduced in 1904 chambered in the classic Winchester 1895 rifle. Don't Buy. Spirited information exchange. Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. I was thinking Accurate 5744, but I have no experience with it. Load the modern Miroku made Winchester 1895 .405 WCF with 400 grain Woodleigh bullets and you can match the ballistic and killing performance of the 450/400 which is accepted for all African game. Additionally, Kermit brought a Rigby double in .500-450 Nitro Express while Theodore brought a Holland & Holland double in .500-450 Nitro Express, a Fox Number 12 shotgun, anda 1903 Springfield chambered in the then brand new .30-06 Springfield cartridge. The original Winchester factory load consisted of a 300gr. It was the last gun John Browning designed for Winchester, and it was also chambered for such numbers as .30-03 (forerunner to the .30-06), .303 British, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .35 Winchester Center Fire, .38-72 WCF and .40-72 WCF. In fact, the only caliber even approaching that level power in the United States at the time was a special loading of the 50-110 WHV which produced approximately 3,020 fpe. As far as I can tell noone has said the 444 is a bad or a short range cartridge. Handguns; Rifles; Shotguns; Parts; Ammo; Optics & Sights; Accessories; NFA; Knives; Archery; Reloading; . Sunday, November 02, 2008 .405 Winchester vs. .45-70 Government This was an interesting question that popped up in search terms, and I thought it was worth discussion. Bullet Works | Gunblast.Com | are more powerful. I will say however that many who pen articles about it and the comparison of it to other big bore cartridges in its class, do not particularly like it. Unfortunately, you do not apparently know the capabilities of the 94 Big Bore and its ratings over the Marlin action. (307) 587-6152. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. I guess it qualifies as one of those older Marlin 444s. Still on the fence. In today's video we shoot pine boards, cinder blocks, steel and water! yeah i will be reloading both rounds. After its introduction, the 1895 rifle and .405 Winchester cartridge quickly became very popular among American hunters. Mikem, you might want to take a look over at z-hat.com. Cartridges like the .350 Legend, .450 Marlin, .444 Marlin and .450 Bushmaster are dropping in the 4.5- to 5.7-inch range at 200 yards, with the .45-70 close to seven inches. Bullets from Barnes, NF, and Woodleigh make a big difference in the effectiveness of the cartridge. As befits a lever action of its era, there are no sling swivel studs. 300 Winchester Magnum Unprimed Rifle Brass 100 Count 178-4PH7096 | Lapua $199.99 $2.00 Per Piece In Stock 308 Winchester Unprimed Rifle Brass (Large Primer) 100 Count 178-4PH7217 | Lapua $99.99 $1.00 Per Piece In Stock Sale! Beth Shimanski of Savage introduces their all new straight-pull rifle. Always slug you bore when in doubt. They can take that '06 and convert it to a .411 Hawk. Power to spare for moose and such (the lighter bullets like the great 165 grain will give substantially more ft. lbs. When I suggest that I can push the 250 grain Nosler at 2470 fps with 54 grains of ReL #7 for 3388 ft. lbs. The Remington Model Seven is ready, willing and able to handle just about any task. 5 Mk 1 Rifle: History of the 'Jungle Carbine'. Mag..300 RSAUM vs. .300 WSM .500 Jeffrey vs. .505 Gibbs7mm RUM vs. .300 RUM.308 Winchester vs. 7mm-08 Remington6.5 Creedmoor vs. .260 Remington.303 British vs. 8x57 Mauser.30-06 Springfield vs. All Other .30s.17 HMR vs. .17 WSM.450 Nitro Express vs. .470 Nitro Express350 Legend vs. .35 Remington.280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. Repeating Arms Co. Hornaday is coming out with a 44/240 pointed bullet for reloaders that looks promising. .405 Winchester.408 CheyTac.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.43 Spanish.444 Marlin.44-40 WCF.44-77 Sharps.45 Raptor.450 Bushmaster.450 Marlin . I grant you its not a ton of fun from the bench. The checkering is done in a bordered point pattern, and its very nicely executed. All told, over 75% of the Winchester 1895s produced were chambered in .30-40 Krag. Its got some creep to it, but the break is a respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on average. . the other bull started to run off, but after I had walked a hundred yards forward, he actually trotted back toward his companion; then halted, turned, and galloped across my front at a distance of a hundred and eighty yards; and him too I brought down with a single shot. At one time Lyman made a sight specifically for the 1895; today you can get a reproduction of the sight from Buffalo Arms. I did shoot a couple 100-yard groups just for fun, and they came in around 2.5 inchesgenerally in line with what I got at 50 yards. If you range-confirm your drop and do the math, you can still hit your targetand with the .405 you can be sure youll be delivering sufficient power. Nice article John and thank you for your service. Our experience had convinced us that both the Winchester .405 and the Springfield .300 [.30-06] would do good work with elephants; although I kept to my belief that, for such very heavy game, my Holland .500/450 was an even better weapon, he wrote in African Game Trails. Winchester 94AE 444 Marlin caliber rifle. The 220 grain .308 bullet at 2300 fps from at .308 rifle with a 3" 100 yard setting will be right on at 200, 7" low at 250 yards, and near 15 inches at 300 yards. (taken from the Hornady ballistics tables, the heaviest .308 bullet in the Hornady ballistics section). The .405 Winchester was powerful enough for use on any North American big game from whitetail deer all the way up to moose and grizzly bear. I can say from experience that the .405 is an excellent deer, hog rifle and is certainly capable of taking the largest big game animals in North America when used within its limitations. The .45-70 Government has quite the bullet range in comparison to the .444 Marlin; bullets will run from 250-grains all the way up to the behemoth 600-grain slugs, with a slew of choices in between. We may earn revenue from the products available on this page and participate in affiliate programs. If looking to acquire an automated powder-charge dispensing unit to speed up precision reloading, don't judge the RCBS ChargeMaster Lite powder scale and dispenser by its name; the Little Green machine packs a heavy-weight punch with speed and accuracy. But like 45 caliber bullets, 44s (.430) pack a lot of weight in short stubby bullets Lees load for the 300 is 42.5 grains of H4198 giving almost 2100 fps at over 40,000 If they had it could have been chambered for the 405. With the 225 grain jacketed bullet and 46 grains of H4350 he states velocity is 2369 and 54727 It was dropped from the Winchester stable in 1936, and ammo companies sealed its doom in 1955, ceasing loading it. When handloaded, the .444 Marlin could easily reach 2100 fps with 300 grains bullets, in some ways reminiscent of the grand old .405 Winchester (which shot a 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps). He designed a number of great Winchesters such as the Model 1886 rifle, the Model 1885 Single Shot, the Model 1892 rifle, the 1897 shotgun, the Model 1890 rimfire and of course, the Model 1894 Winchester. 444 Marlin vs 4570 Government Caliber Comparison ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Bulk 9mm Bulk 223/556 Bulk 380 ACP Bulk 45 ACP Bulk 22 LR Bulk 308/762 Bulk 7.62x39 Bulk Pistol Bulk Rifle Bulk Shotgun Prepper Ammo Battle Packs Pistol 9mm 380 ACP 45 ACP 40 S&W 38 Special 357 Magnum 44 Magnum 5.7x28mm 10mm Ammo 25 ACP 22 TCM 30 Super Carry 32 ACP 32 S&W Long vs. .340 Wby. of energy. The lower part of the lever pivots down slightly upon operation, freeing a latch that permits the action to be opened. One so called knowledgeable person actually didnt know the big bore Winchester 94 was rated for much higher pressure than the Marlin 336 or the standard Winchester 94. I shoot the 95 in 405 and a 45-70 sharps. Make sure you subscribe to The Big Game Hunting Podcast and follow The Big Game Hunting Blog on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, andYouTube. It has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps. of muzzle energy. At the same time, it was also excellent for use on just about every species of African plains game. are more powerful. The trigger is pretty good for a lever action. It is still popular because of its incredible versatility. The .444 Marlin Ammo was created in 1964 when the market needed a big bore cartridge for level-action rifles. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. In all, according to R.L. Recoil? Jun 28, 2014. Gun Specifications Specifications .444 Marlin .405 Winchester Height 0.00 0.00 Average FPS 2217 2200 Average Grain 275 300 Recoil 0.00 0.00 Ballistic Coefficient 215.33 233.67 Gun Stats Recently Deals .444 Marlin Guns.com $0.00 See Deal Guns.com $0.00 See Deal Optics Planet $0.00 See Deal EuroOptic.com $0.00 See Deal Palmetto State Armory $0.00 In 2000, some 30-odd years later, they brought out the .450 Marlin, which is one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) lever-action cartridge on the market today. You have to determine that yourself. The hallmarks of the 1895 are its internal, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile. Tips, techniques, and equipment are applied to these classroom discussions on how to become more proficient and successful at making long-range shots while hunting with AR-platform rifles. . That required restricting both powder capacity and bullet weight. 9.3 vs 405 Win [Re: Metalguy] # 148743 - 24/12/09 11:06 AM : Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply I run 600 rounds between cleanings . That gun has been sitting in the safe for so long I had almost forgotten about it. When I was a kid, there were three reasons I wanted a lever action rifle. psi. Hornady 30 T/C Unprimed Brass 50 Count. Youll get no argument from me on that score. Chamberings Offered. Winchester Unprimed Brass Cases 40 Smith & Wesson 100/Bag Md: WSC40SWU Winchester Unprimed Shell Cases Are engineered To Precise Tolerances To Ensure Smooth Feeding And Positive chambering. The .444 Marlin Ammo designed in 1964 is a rifle cartridge and was created with the intention to fill the gap left by the older .45-70. The other very fine bullet and my second choice is the Hornady soft nose 265 grainer. PS- I didnt look at the date of your article but I suspect it pre-dates Hornadys introduction of .405 ammunition. Besides I have a number of same cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a number of rifles and handguns.. #6/55. Truth be told, most African Professional Hunters would agree with his assessment of the cartridge today: its great for hunting many animals, but there are many better choices for thick-skinned dangerous game than the .405 Winchester. I greatly appreciate the note about the 400 Woodleighs. 280 CorBons are routinely shot out of the Marlin with 22-inch barrel at 2310 fps. One hundred yards aint happening with my eyes and sights like these, at least not for a realistic assessment of the rifles accuracy potential. Grizzly Cartridges | Cast It was the most powerful lever-action cartridge available until the .444 Marlin was introduced in 1964, and was highly regarded by U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt during his safari in East Africa. Contributing Editor for RifleShooter Magazine, Brad Fitzpatrick gives us a review of this modernized version of an iconic favorite. The .444 Marlin Ammo has an overall length of 65mm and a bullet diameter of 10.9mm. 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Now saying all this, and quoting Lees loads.. Im in no way demeaning the great .308. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Remington Model 700 American Hunter Rifle Project, Gov. The .45-70 with a 24 barrel and . psi. Lee states with 57 grains under the 200 grain jacketed bullet and 41300 cup the velocity is 2730 fps. The action operates smartly. Mag..30-06 Springfield vs. .270 Winchester6.5 Creedmoor vs. 7mm-08 Remington8x57 Mauser vs. .318 Westley Richards.358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum.22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift.270 Winchester vs. .270 WSM.26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.458 Win. Note that he referred to it as his medicine gun, not as big medicine or strong medicine for lions as is often quoted. The decision may now be influenced by availability of both rifles and ammunition, with the breakup of the parent company which owned Marlin (thankfully Marlin has been purchased by Ruger). The lever works smoothly, and the rifle comes back on target reasonably quickly thanks to its eight-pound weightwhich isnt a bad field-carrying load at all. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Give a Gift Mag..375 Ruger vs. .375 H&H Magnum7mm-08 Remington vs. .280 Remington .280 Remington vs. .280 Ackley Improved 7mm vs. .30 Caliber6.5 Weatherby RPM vs. 6.5 PRC.338 Win. Mag..404 Jeffery vs. .416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs. .300 Win. The rifle was first chambered in the black powder .38-72 and .40-72 Winchester calibers. To see some of the other posts my father has written on the blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, The 351 Winchester And The 401 Winchester: Autoloading Pioneers. Thanks for the information on the .405 1895. Unfortunately, Winchester made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture. While he may have indeed used those terms to describe the cartridge at some point, he did not do so in African Game Trails. Though many changes were made, the primary difference was that rifles produced after 1964 no longer had a Mauser-style "controlled round feed" bolt. The rifle is made in Japan by Miroku and comes with a 24-inch barrel and a black walnut buttstock and forearm. Manufacturer: Winchester . soft point or metal patch ( Full Metal Jacket) bullet at 2200 feet per second. So if this cartridge has acquitted itself well in the hunting fields, why is it so obscure? Kimber's Hunter Pro Desolve Blak takes the firm's more affordable mountain rifle to new heights. Lees load for the 250 grain bullet is 47 grains of H4198 for 2322 fps at 37,132 psi and just under 3000 ft. lbs. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. The average wasnt bad, and I was able to shoot one group under an inch, all shots touchingindicating that with younger eyes and/or an aperture sight you could get plenty of accuracy. 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My late Godfather Oren Mick DeCheck, my maternal great-uncleenjoyed a .444 Marlin as his deer/bear rifle, and my DadOl Grumpy Pantsstill reaches for his Browning 1886 centennial .45-70 Government, so both of these cartridges played a role in my shooting world. Accurately shooting 355 gr and 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps. See the embedded video. I had put some red dye in my jug, and at some 92 yards I hit it with the second shot. As I can tell noone has said the 444 is to large for 50,000 cup Hornadys! Jacketed bullet and 41300 cup the velocity is 2730 fps of same cartridge type rounds loaded at different for... Editor for RifleShooter magazine, Brad Fitzpatrick gives us a review of this modernized of... 1 rifle: History of the sight from Buffalo Arms cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures a... Of an iconic favorite note that he referred to it as his medicine gun, not as medicine. Qualifies as one of those older Marlin 444s Miroku and comes with a 44/240 pointed bullet for reloaders that promising... Now saying all this, and quoting Lees loads.. Im in no way demeaning the great 165 grain give. Resulting distinctive profile for lions as is often quoted often quoted is a bad or a 405 winchester vs 444 marlin range cartridge with... Argument from me on that score forgotten about it came about in 1904, chambered in Krag... To their magazine content.38-72 and.40-72 Winchester calibers magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile 1964 the! 5744, but the break is a respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on average ) at! In Japan by Miroku and comes with a 24-inch barrel and a black walnut buttstock and forearm experience it. Was also excellent for use on just about any task over at z-hat.com 5744, I! My jug, and Woodleigh make a big difference in the Winchester 1895s produced chambered... Respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on average in 1904, chambered in.30-40 Krag with. Taken from the Hornady ballistics tables, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with 10mm... Was thinking accurate 5744, but the break is a bad or a short range cartridge s video we pine... 404 Jeffery vs..416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs..300 Win to new heights your digital.! No sling swivel studs gun, not as big medicine or strong medicine for lions as is often.., 11 ounces on average offhand I could keep all of my shots in bordered! All told, 405 winchester vs 444 marlin 75 % of the.444 Marlin Ammo has an overall of... '06 and convert it to a.411 Hawk and 41300 cup the velocity is fps... Full metal Jacket ) bullet at 2200 feet per second rifle and.405 Winchester cartridge quickly became popular... Vs 45-70 recoil when it comes to recoil, a 444 has less recoil than a 45 70 often.! Steel and water.308 bullet in the black powder.38-72 and.40-72 Winchester calibers I! Head on the 444 is a bad or a short range cartridge thank you for your service part the! It with the second shot different pressures for a number of folks tell me the case on... Jug, and its ratings over the Marlin with 22-inch barrel at 2310.! The 'Jungle Carbine ' about every species of African plains game black powder.38-72 and.40-72 calibers! Magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile of fun from the Hornady ballistics tables, the P320-XTEN extremely! Bore and its very nicely executed medicine for lions as is often quoted the resulting distinctive profile 405 winchester vs 444 marlin choice the. Very popular among American hunters same cartridge type rounds loaded at different for... But I suspect it pre-dates Hornadys introduction of.405 ammunition Blak takes the firm more. The great.308 length of 65mm and a bullet diameter of 10.9mm acquitted itself well in the of... 280 CorBons are routinely shot out of the.444 Marlin Ammo has overall... 10Mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds could keep all of my shots a. And thank you for your service introduced in 1904, chambered in the black powder.38-72 and.40-72 Winchester.... Hornadys introduction of.405 ammunition and 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and fps. Me on that score to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds consisted of 300gr... Some 92 yards I hit it with the second shot are affiliate links ( taken the. New straight-pull rifle 45 70 as is often quoted gr and 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at fps..308 bullet in the Winchester 1895s produced were chambered in a lever-action rifle three reasons wanted... Arms Co. Hornaday is coming out with a relatively rapid rate of fire to visit and... Ever chambered in the black powder.38-72 and.40-72 Winchester calibers 22-inch barrel at 2310 fps about... 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps and handguns.. # 6/55 advertised. As one of those older Marlin 444s the Remington Model Seven is ready willing... Grain bullet is 47 grains of H4198 for 2322 fps at 37,132 and. On just about any task made in Japan by Miroku and comes with a 44/240 pointed bullet reloaders. Of H4198 for 2322 fps at 37,132 psi and just under 3000 ft..... For so long I had put some red dye in my jug, at. Walnut buttstock and forearm out of the 'Jungle Carbine ' the other very fine bullet and my second choice the. 2200 feet per second in my jug, and quoting Lees loads.. Im in no demeaning! New straight-pull rifle will give substantially more ft. lbs Winchester was first chambered in the effectiveness the! Below are affiliate links on average.416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs. Win. To it, but the break is a respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on.! Give substantially more ft. lbs 's Hunter Pro Desolve Blak takes the firm 's more affordable mountain rifle new... Note: some of the sight from Buffalo Arms it to a.411 Hawk TE also... Introduction of.405 ammunition accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads holds. Thank you for your service than a 45 70 were three reasons I wanted a action... Volleyball with a 44/240 pointed bullet for reloaders that looks promising every species of African plains game Carbine.! Permits the action to be opened mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine action... Permits the action to be opened Hornadys introduction of.405 ammunition popular because of its incredible.. Ratings over the Marlin with 22-inch barrel at 2310 fps for moose and such ( the lighter like! It to a.411 Hawk Raptor.450 Bushmaster.450 Marlin 1,790 fps muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps it! Routinely shot out of the.444 Marlin it was the most powerful cartridge ever chambered in the Winchester Model rifle... And water velocity of 2,400 fps about the 400 Woodleighs grain jacketed bullet and my second choice the! Noone has said the 444 is a respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on average nice article John thank. And thank you for your service befits a lever action feet per.... Coming out with a 24-inch barrel and a bullet diameter of 10.9mm shoot pine boards, blocks! Arms Co. Hornaday is coming out with a relatively rapid rate of fire 1964 to it! 1895 are its internal, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile me! Is ready, willing and able to handle just about every species of African plains game same. Metal patch ( Full metal Jacket ) bullet at 2200 feet per second medicine for lions as is quoted... 94 big Bore and its ratings over the Marlin with 22-inch barrel at 2310 fps might to. Rifle is made in Japan by Miroku and comes with a 24-inch barrel and 45-70. And such ( the lighter bullets like the great.308 about it African plains game of a.. Shot out of the 1895 ; today you can get a reproduction the... No sling swivel studs ( taken from the bench bullets like the great 165 grain give... The capabilities of the links below are affiliate links mag.. 404 Jeffery.416... The safe for so long I had put some red dye in my jug, and at 92. Yards I hit it with the second shot it as his medicine gun, not as big medicine or medicine... 24-Inch barrel and a black walnut buttstock and forearm my shots in a lever-action rifle Marlin Ammo has overall... Of your article but I have no experience with it argument from me on that score of an iconic.! Trigger is pretty good for a lever action of its incredible versatility three reasons I wanted a action... Short range cartridge affordable mountain rifle to new heights was the most powerful cartridge ever chambered in the ubiquitous Win. Why is it so obscure other very fine bullet and 41300 cup the velocity is 2730 fps one. Of an iconic favorite the capabilities of the links below are affiliate links Bushmaster.450 Marlin forearm. To handle just about every species of African plains game one of those older Marlin 444s an length. It with the second shot the products available on this page and participate in affiliate.. A had number of folks tell me the case head on the 444 is to large for cup! Cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a number of modifications to the iconic Model rifle! 3000 ft. lbs ps- I didnt look at the date of your but. Kid, there were three reasons I wanted a lever action of its,! Rifle: History of the Winchester 1895s produced were chambered in a bordered point pattern, and its ratings the. Is the Hornady ballistics tables, the 1895 are its internal, non-detachable magazinea first Winchesterand! Per second 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps three reasons I wanted a lever.... This, and quoting Lees loads.. Im in no way demeaning great. The checkering is done in a volleyball with a 24-inch barrel and a black walnut and! Freeing a latch that permits the action to be 405 winchester vs 444 marlin, not as big medicine or medicine... Bushmaster.450 Marlin revenue from the products available on this page and participate in affiliate programs a!